In this episode of In Conversation With, Mary Margaret Olohan sits down with Declan Ganley, Irish entrepreneur, political campaigner, and founder of Libertas, to examine the true state of Catholicism in Ireland. Ganley opens as an optimist: the rumours of the Church's death, he argues, are premature. Parts of it are dying, but new roots are forming, particularly among a generation of young men who have tried the alternatives and found them wanting. He traces the arc of Irish Catholic life from the rural west of his childhood, a faith that was, in his phrase, "three miles wide and half an inch deep", through the moment the Church began to go woke, symbolised for him by a school chapel stripped of its pews and a nun leading students through a wind-chime meditation in place of the Mass.