Douglas Wilson, a prominent Reformed theologian and pastor who has been invited to preach at the Pentagon, has called for the banning of Catholic processions in his vision of a Protestant America.
In an interview with John Papola, a Catholic and host of the podcast ‘Dad Saves America’, Papola asks Wilson to explain how his future descendants might fare in a Protestant nationalist state.
He begins the segment by explaining how Muslims will be treated, saying that whilst they can live and worship as a community, the call to prayer would not be permitted. He explains that Catholic church bells would be permitted, “but a parade in honour of the Virgin Mary, carrying an image of the Virgin Mary down main street, no”.
When Papola asks whether a Eucharistic procession would be permissible, Wilson is unsure, answering: “Probably not. It would depend on what was being done around it, how it was being conducted.” He continues by explaining that “public displays of idolatry” would not be allowed and states that “you would not have a Hindu procession with a Hindu god, so you wouldn’t have a procession with the Virgin Mary.”
Outlining his belief in the Eucharist, Wilson claims that he believes in “the real presence” and that if a procession does not involve Catholics worshipping the Eucharist, it could be permitted.
In the interview, Wilson also states that “Catholics in America have largely been protestantised”. He explains that since Catholics in America permit and sit comfortably within a denominational structure, attending their own church and not trying to force Protestants to convert, they have accepted a Protestant approach to religion. “The fact that in America we have a volunteerist system where Protestants go to Protestant churches and Catholics go to Catholic churches means that in this respect, civilly, the Roman Catholic Church in North America has accepted the Protestant framing.”
He says Catholics will be “treated with dignity and respect” in his Protestant state, a courtesy he emphasises will also be shared with Jews, but that the basis of law will remain within the Reformed tradition.
This is not the first time Wilson has espoused a critical view of Catholics, pitting them against other Christians. In a 2011 interview, he was asked whether “faithful Roman Catholics” will be in heaven. He responds by saying “of course not and of course” explaining that: “If someone is a faithful Roman Catholic in that they have memorised the Council of Trent and they understand the teaching of the Roman Church and they follow it… I don’t believe that such a person can be saved.”
In a 2019 speech he says Catholics have “formally embraced a false gospel”, by virtue of the Council of Trent. However, he goes on to explain that if they believe in Jesus, despite this teaching, “then I have no problem receiving that person as my brother or sister in the Lord”.
His view of Catholics is often balanced by a nuance that more hardline Protestant theologians do not hold. He describes G K Chesterton as one of the top five people who have most influenced his work and, when asked whether Chesterton and Tolkien are saved, says that “if they are not, then I am in a lot of trouble.”
Wilson has long been a prominent theologian in Protestant circles. In 1998 he co-founded the Confederation of Reformed Evangelicals, a conservative Protestant body with 150 congregations across four continents, which has recently opened a branch in DC. He is also infamous for the 2003 publication Southern Slavery, As It Was, which he co-wrote with Reformed minister J Steven Wilkins. In the pamphlet, Wilkins wrote that “slavery produced in the South a genuine affection between the races that we believe we can say has never existed in any nation before the War or since.”
However, recently he has come to national prominence because of his association with the Christian nationalist movement, with Tucker Carlson describing him as “the person most closely associated with that term ‘Christian nationalism’”.
Pete Hegseth, secretary of the Department of Defense, is known to be a close ally of Wilson and is the reason for his invitation to preach at the Pentagon. Hegseth attends a church within Wilson’s network and has previously described himself as “standing on the shoulders” of Wilson and thanked him for his “mentorship”.
Alongside speaking at the Pentagon, Wilson has also spoken at the National Conservatism Conference, where notable speakers have also included JD Vance, Marco Rubio, Giorgia Meloni, Peter Thiel and Viktor Orbán. He has also been interviewed by The Wall Street Journal and CNN, and recently appears on Sam Harris’s podcast.
Responding to the controversy, Wilson posted a video on his YouTube channel titled ‘Virgin Mary Parades in the Year 2526’. In it, he explains the high esteem he has for faithful Catholics who have stood up for Christian values, citing in particular Supreme Court justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito, as well as Catholic writers such as William F Buckley and Christopher Dawson.
He further outlines that his ban on parades honouring the Virgin Mary simply comes down to his belief that it is idolatry, stating that “you shouldn’t be doing it”, rather than any animosity towards Catholics specifically.
He also comments that since so much of American Catholicism has become “protestantised”, this allows for a functional relationship between the two faiths. Emphasising that Protestants should respond to their circumstances, he says: “There are circumstances when I think Protestants should celebrate Guy Fawkes Day harder than they ever did before, but that is not our circumstance, and it is not ours because Protestantism is winning.” Wilson further explains that religious liberty grew out of the Protestant West, and that embracing Protestantism will guarantee religious liberty for Catholics.
